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As multi-platinum-selling British headliners Def Leppard prepare to set out for six arena dates along with their special guests, Boston band Extreme, best known for their untypical acoustic hit More Than Words, we got a guitar hero from each band – Phil Collen from Leppard, Nuno Bettencourt from Extreme – together for a chat with Classic Rock.
Have the two of you met before?
Phil Collen: Years ago, and right from when I first heard Extreme I’ve always loved Nuno’s playing.
Nuno Bettencourt: In most interviews I have to lie and say how much I like a band I’m going out on tour with, but these guys are among my favourites. There’s no need to lie.
But this will be the first time the two bands have toured together?
Collen: We’ve played a couple of gigs, but yeah.
Bettencourt: We’ve submitted for Def Leppard tours for forty years but always got turned down. They hated us that much. But finally they feel bad enough to let us do it.
Collen: They guilt tripped us so bad we had to [laughs]. But this is more than just a band. Extreme have this performance element to rock’n’roll that a lot of bands don’t have. It’s always said you can be an artist, a musician or a performer, so it’s rare to get all three. Prince was one of those. Extreme are, too.
Bettencourt: It’s so rare to see another band that still gives a shit about their sound, about the way they look, and how they entertain. We’re all in arrested development. In fact both bands have actually got better and better live.
Collen: I agree, definitely.
Bettencourt: One of the reasons Def Leppard can still headline at the level they do is because of the songs. You can have all the elements we just mentioned, but everybody wants to listen to those songs performed live.
Which of you is the better guitarist?
Collen [without hesitation]: Nuno is the best rock guitar player in the world out there. Seriously.
Bettencourt: I think I might be one of the last ones left. Like, we’re doing tours now together because nobody else is left.
Nuno, which Leppard song do you wish you had written?
Oh my god. It’s kind of upsetting to think about. When we came out, bands like Def Leppard and Guns N’ Roses might have their ballads, but they always broke with a rock song. Extreme was not like that. We had More Than Words [the acoustic single that topped the US chart in 1991], which was a blessing and a curse. But absolutely we’ll take it. Without that song I might be working at Burger King right now. With Def Leppard it was rocker after rocker, all with great lyrics, melodies and vocals.
There’s a laundry list of their best songs. Phil, which of Extreme’s songs do you envy?
Anything from Pornograffiti [the band’s second album, from 1990]. My favourite music in the world is seventies funk, and when I first heard Extreme I’m like: “Well, this is funky. This is really funky.” And rock bands don’t do that. It had that edge to it as well.
Bettencourt: It’s funny, because we are just wrapping up an album on which we consciously decided to really double down on the heavier, riff-driven, funkier side of Extreme.
Collen: Love it, love it.
Bettencourt: I was always attracted to funkier songs – Dragon Attack by Queen, The Crunge by Led Zeppelin, Aerosmith’s Walk This Way obviously. Go For What You Know, the live album from the Pat Travers Band, was my funk-rock vibe album.
Collen: With my old band Girl, I toured with Pat Travers.
Bettencourt: No shit!
Collen: Yeah. They got real funky.
So many things have changed in rock music, especially post-covid. For example, there seems to be more of a willingness for musicians to jam and collaborate; it seems an album isn’t an album without a ton of special guests.
Collen: Pop artists do it all the time. You know, one and one equals three. The idea is that you double the audience. But you must be a bit careful with that, I think. It must be legit. Don’t get someone just because they’re famous.
Bettencourt: I agree with Phil. Management is telling us we need collaborators on our new album. We said: “Wait a second. Anybody can collaborate.” Now people are doing it for follows and likes. But this is art. It’s your music, it’s your legacy. Don’t water down who you are as an artist.
Another recent development is the show going on at any cost. Should a band member become unavailable, you rope in a deputy. For example, earlier this year Uriah Heep gigged without their sole original member, guitarist Mick Box. And Leppard have played without Vivian Campbell.
Collen: Well, our guitar tech, John Zocco, is a better guitarist than me and Vivian.
Bettencourt: You could have asked me. It would have been a dream to play with Def Leppard.
Collen: We must play together on this tour.
Bettencourt: I will duct tape up your tech to ensure it happens.
But the point is, back in the eighties or nineties the tour would have been postponed.
Bettencourt: We’re all getting up there [agewise]. I understand it if someone passes away. I’ve played with a few bands recently where the last original member was the monitor [on stage sound] guy – and they’re still going. That’s crazy.
Collen: From the sixties until the early nineties, music was art. But touring changed the way records were made, from vinyl, CD and cassette to streaming, and the business agenda meant we had to adapt. No one’s got any time, and people’s attention spans have become so short. On tour you have to take all that shit into consideration.
You’ve both been famous musicians for a long time. What’s changed about stardom?
Collen: Anyone can be famous now. This isn’t sour grapes. But when both of our bands did the Freddie Mercury tribute show [at Wembley Stadium in 1992], everyone was there – Metallica and Elton John – but when Bowie walked into the room he was a real star. Now you can become famous for not doing a lot. You can be an influencer or god-knows-what. As much as MTV broke us, it also burst the mystique of rock’n’roll.
Bettencourt: I remember at the Freddie Mercury tribute, right before we went on, I opened curtains to the holding tent next door and there was Bowie with a saxophone. People like him were not stars for being stars, it’s something you earn. Y’know, I got to do something with McCartney at the Grammys where I rehearsed with him for three days. I was so nervous I had to pretend he was a hologram. But he was the most down-to-earth human in that room, shaking hands with the guy that was doing the catering. And he goes: “Let’s play, man. Let’s play,” like he was sixteen years old.
Gene Simmons, for one, keeps telling us that rock’n’roll is dead. Is it?
Collen: Well come and see us and you’ll know for sure that it ain’t.
Bettencourt: I believe that rock’n’roll is in one of the most exciting places it can be. So… young musicians, get the fuck off Instagram, get up off your ass, put a band together and make great albums. The time is right for a revolution in rock’n’roll. It’s yours for the fucking taking. I believe it’s coming.
Collen: Hear hear.
The Def Leppard/Extreme tour reaches the UK on June 26 in Belfast and ends in Manchester on July 6. For full dates and tickets, visit the Def Leppard website.
